Thanks also to Paul and Dale Berger for putting us up, myself and my friends Flint and Debbie, or should I say putting up with us, I'm not sure. And it's been terrific to come here and meet everybody and be able to see some faces that we've spoken with and be able to come here and be in the presence of the commander as these sessions are coming through. And this is a real privilege to be here. So we all appreciate that very much. We appreciate everything that you all do, all the ground crew here, to put out the words that we so very much need. I'm not speaking for myself. I look forward to the next issue of The Contact because I sort of don't do much else but read The Contact. As I may, I read a journal here and there. And believe me, we need this to stay in touch and understand what's going on.

So we really appreciate that very much. We appreciate the hosts who are here, of course, who make this all possible. I'm just a guy that got on the radio and through whatever reason and was able to make connections with the commander to be able to do this. And that's basically my story. I guess there isn't a whole lot to it beyond that. I'm one who is in a situation where I don't really care what happens to me, particularly if anything were to happen. It doesn't mean anything to me, personally. And so I guess the way the commander talks, there's some risk associated with this association, but I don't feel that exactly.

I haven't felt that way, except early on. I would come out of the station on a dark night out in the dark parking lot and I'd look around and think, well, I just had a pretty good session with the commander, with somebody, you know, denigrating all manner of government authority and everything else, and so what's awaiting me in the dark parking lot? I wonder if he's ever been there. So I have total faith that there isn't going to be anything there in the future. Well, Sam, let's put that shoe back on your foot. Do you come in the light? Absolutely, I do.

Absolutely, I do. Laughter Touché, as they say, I guess. Yes, I do in fact come in the light and I don't know, do we have time before, is Gunther coming through at three o'clock? That was the plan? Well, he's going to try. Well, okay, in that case let me ask you a question, Commander, if I may, regarding that. It is my perception that a lot of people are not aware of what it really means to come in the light and people ask me how I feel so secure in knowing that you are who you are and I say that I have been able to give you what I like to call a white light challenge for want of a better way to put it and they say well what does that mean you know okay so they so the entity coming through says sure I'm coming in the light. What does that really mean?

And I think people need to understand the universal law that's behind that. And it would be better if they heard it coming from you than from me, I think. Well, you have to consider light and dark as the terminology utilized for dark being the adversary, light being the God of creation, creator God. The dark adversary can deal only in that which is already manifest. Everything is created from thought of God in light. Everything in the universe is basically nothing but light. The adversary over here deals in energies, yes, but he can only manipulate that which is already manifest. far more power in the light than you do in the darkness. When you want to clear your space, for instance, you don't even have to be a very good, goodly person, but you won't think unless you're in, on this, and intuitively, instinctively, and intention-wise, you wish to become one with that God.

That would be your goal. When you confront any energy, because usually the dark ones will show up first. They're usually sitting up there, it is going to be the predominant energy. And every time that you give in to it, it wins around, you see, with you. Plug that other ear, it will say, because that one's going to really sucker you. They can do that right up until you're brave. God allows that. He does not come in there and protect you unless you say, Father of creation, God-like, protect me. I believe that we may have our call coming through. It will be going to Russ Walker. We can discuss this later. Hi, Denser, you're right on time. Hi, Denser.

Hi, how are you? Fine. We have you on the speaker. Okay, I'm hearing you loud and clear. Alright, let me introduce you to Sam Russell. Good afternoon, Mr. Russell, how are you? Good afternoon, Gunther. It's a pleasure to speak with you. I'm very well, sir. And how are you? Well, I'm doing considered quite well. The temperature today is about 92, 93 degrees. The humidity is a little bit high, therefore the heat index is more than just at a comfort level. So they don't give you air conditioning in your facilities there, I gather? You've got it correctly, to say the least.

Well, it's a pleasure to have a chance to speak with you. I've had some terrific sessions with her. And so I'm very pleased to have this opportunity. It was very sudden and so I'm very happy about that. How long will we have with you this afternoon? I would estimate we'll have approximately an hour. Okay. The possibility does exist that I may have to break for supper, for dinner. But I don't think so. I'll just pass. Alright, well, we'll just go along until you give us the indication that we must disconnect.

Well, I think this should take priority over a simple meal. At least that's my feeling on it. Yes. Well, you sound very good. Well, as said, all things considered, I'm doing remarkably well. I'm holding my own and I try to progress each day a little bit. I don't really want coronary bypass surgery while I'm incarcerated, so I'm doing everything possible to save it all. What is the status now of the parole hearing that we have been hearing about? There was an article in the CompTac recently about the fact that there was a parole hearing coming up shortly that would possibly allow you to get out of the jail in order to have the bypass surgery.

The hearing was held. It was a reconsideration hearing to make a determination whether or not there was probable cause to release me back to the community. I have yet to receive my return from that. However, all indications, the questions that were posed, I strongly surmise that I will be released in the near or immediate future. It really is beginning to look that favorable then. It looks good. It looks about as good as it can, considering I'm still in here, but I do believe that we've managed to break the barrier. One of the earlier indications was that after your first parole hearing there was the possibility evidently that you might be deported. Is that still a possibility in the event the second one goes through? I don't think so any longer. From all indications or what has been told, someone in Washington has found some documents indicating that I am in fact an American citizen.

Now, please know that my wife will be here this coming Wednesday, and I intend to turn these documents over to her at that time. Yeah. So from all that I have been told and information I have been able to gather, I will be released back into the community and I will determine where I will reside. Well, likely, aren't I intend to spend considerable time overseas, specifically Austria? Well, that's wonderful news that you'll be able to pretty much go where you would like to go rather than simply being deported as they indicated originally. I would say that's far better than the original scenario set forth. Yeah. What...

Obviously the reason you are in jail is that they are trying to keep you from readily revealing some of the things that you know. Is that a safe assumption? I think that assumption is quite safe. However, I've broken the so-called solid mandate by giving information to the public. And I think that's part of the cause for the harassment and maltreatment of my family and myself over the past several years. Yeah. Have the conditions improved for you in the jail? In other words, have they taken you off the kitchen duty and so forth? I have improved considerably over what they were prior to, let's say, a month ago. At least I'm not forced to bust tables and put my hands on detergents with bleach, which in fact cause them to bleed or where the tissue is separated from the nail beds.

That is an incredible thing. Could you describe, please, the circumstances that led to the condition of your hands? I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Could you talk about the circumstances that led to the condition of your hands? In other words, you were in jail and... The problems originated in Laos and Phnom Kenh. I was a POW for a period of time, and one of the tactics that were employed by the puppet law or the communists that were in charge of the country were to take the individual's hands and rip the fingernails out and or shoot bamboo shoots underneath the fingernails to the point where they would touch the first portion of the nail.

And this was done repeatedly over a period of time and destroy his nail in its entirety. That is something that most of us have. It's not worth it. What I'm saying is it could be classified as a form of torture. Yeah, exactly. And that's a circumstance that we all just can't even conceive of happening. No. It's just an amazing, tragic situation that people find themselves in. How did you get out of that jail circumstance in Vietnam? How did that... We're okay. What happened?

Hello, can you hear me? Yes, I hear you. What happened? We don't know. There was just a beeping sound on there. Come on, doctor. I'm here. This is Commander. We've got a lot of surveillance. This is Commander. This is Hatton. This is Commander Hatton. Hello. Commander Hatton is indicating that there is a good deal of surveillance taking place and that was evidently some interference.

Yes, I was lying with that. I didn't realize that we had lost communication. I continued to speak. So if you'll tell me where we got cut off, I will continue my rambling. Actually, you were coming through okay here. Evidently, we, you lost us, but we did not lose you. Okay. So you were in the Vietnamese jail, and how did you come to, how were you released from that circumstance since so few who were POWs in that area ever did achieve their freedom? Okay, sir, let me clarify the position. I was not in a Vietnamese jail. I was in a low-ranking jail, or a POW camp. And it was, as I indicated just a few moments ago, run by the puppet law.

And they did not release me. I was the only one that left on that evening. I did manage to escape basically intact, although as said my hands were not in the greatest of shape. Plus I had abdominal wounds that were open. I was fortunate. I was more fortunate than the rest of them, even though I had to take a life in order to get out. How far did you have to go on foot, I gather, to finally arrive in a safe haven? It was several hundred miles considering the fact that I was passing through country that was basically unknown to me. I'd seen it from the air but never from the ground. I managed to make my way from the Laos border through Cambodia back into the Thailand area. What was the mission that took you into that area in the first place?

I was a sub-runner from the Red Dog Project, that is to say, the Phoenix Project. The Red Dog 1 was the denotion of my unit and it was basically put into force to extract, to find, extract American POWs and or MIA personnel. We had done several of these over a period of time and they were all fairly well successful to the point where we did extract several hundred Americans. But the last mission that I was on was compromised. It's a part of the United States was attempting to create a peace with the Vietnamese, Laotian, and the Cambodian governments through the Kishkir initiatives in Paris. So when we were fielded, obviously, there were some security aspects in place at that point that once the team has filled it, there's no point of recall. All communication between the command structure and the field team is ceased, and the team proceeds to its destination or insertion place, does the operation, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, and I was in the field, that were in fact Americans dressed up in Soviet garb.

So, early on at least, Pardon? Early on at least, then it would seem the government did have the intention of trying to extract POWs. Early on the intention was, it was far more than an intention. We actually did everything within our power to field specific teams to go in where we knew that there were American POWs or suspected MIA locations and get the men back out. We fielded several teams like that. Red Dog was merely one of several teams that untied the ends in the bush. But we did have considerable result. Why did the whole thing change, do you think? Why did that whole policy change? It's difficult to say. I think that the United States became very, very tired of its involvement in the Southeast Asian Peninsula, and it was time to back out of there as gracefully as possible.

The terms for disengagement were not exactly favorable to the United States, and considering the power structure and the so-called quote-unquote elite in Washington, including the Kissingerites, it was merely a question of time as to what can we give up to secure a fairly decent, stable form of release, and they didn't give a damn whether they compromised missions or operations, or how many people that they left behind? Okay, let me just basically clarify what my knowledge on this matter is. I saw stat maps and stat columns as to Americans that were suspected to have gone down in Laos and Cambodia and in various parts of North Vietnam. The totals that I seem to recall from those years were somewhere around 23 to 2800. And they were continuously growing, so it was not merely a point that this was a fixed amount of Americans that were missing. Also, you have to bear in mind that there were other countries that had lost men also on various operations or co-operations with the United States of America, specifically referring to countries such as Canada, Australia, and a couple of the others that were part of the larger picture operating in Vietnam.

Now, one thing that I would like to clarify before we go on to a different subject is, the man that I reported to, personally reported to, during that time frame was my interface or liaison in Saigon at Thompson Air Force Base. This man was, and still is, Donald Brink. His boss was Robert Gates, so you can see what has transpired through the Reagan and Bush era, that these individuals that have basically massacred their mouse shuts rose to positions of power, while others lost their lives or became incarcerated. For not honoring the directive or the mandate for silence. So we come forward in time after you achieve safety in Sto- I'm sorry, I have a great deal of trouble hearing you. I'm sorry. After you were able to gain safety from that episode... I guess you broke up on me.

You were able to and then at the last I heard him. Okay, there is interference evidently. After you were able to get to safety after that situation... I'm sorry, I guess you broke up. Sam, you have to speak in to hear for him to hear you. Oh I see, is that better now? Sam, you're breaking up. I hear about two or three words and there is absolute silence on the line. Can you hear me now? Is this a more consistent... Hello? Can you hear me now? Gunther? Can you hear me now at all?

I'm not hearing anything. I'm using a low-end on the phone. Just speak right into here. Straight in here. Alright, is this better now? Gunther, can you hear me now? Gunther? Yes, I'm here. Oh, can you hear me now? I hear you. We're all clear.

As a matter of fact, you're coming through extremely loud. Oh, really? Well, I was trying to go over what you heard there. And I hear the people in the background. So you're coming through extremely well and loud and clear. Okay. Now we continue. All right. After you were able to get to safety, after that situation, what were some of the primary missions that you went on?

Some of the primary what? Some of the primary missions that you were able to go on after that. Okay. A lot of the missions dealt back with counter-insurgency, counter-terrorism, and trying to ascertain which terrorist groups around the world met our criteria for funding. We worked hand-in-hand with a number of the KGB groups that were out in the field, through the Paris and Bonn offices, to fund specific terrorist groups to undermine certain governments and create economic chaos in Europe, all for the benefit of the United States, I suppose, in the short-term and long-term run. That is, need to include the Brigante Rosso group, which is your RAF Red Army faction out of Italy, the Loto Continuo, which was an offshoot from one of the old Communist groups, as well as the Bonner-Meinhof group out of Germany, out of Frankfurt.

Those are basically the ones that I was involved with. Well it was a continuing series of episodes and I gather that these were basic CIA type operations. Were these funded through black projects primarily do you think? They were funded entirely through black projects. There were no offered funds available to fund international terrorism. The obvious attempt was to bring our own into the groups or to facilitate the insertion of special operatives into these groups and then turn them around to where they would work for us. A lot of times the information or the data that was brought forth was shared equally by KGB, GRU and agency personnel as well as our cousins in New London. So there are just ongoing activities, of course the drug activity we understand is probably the primary financial resource for CIA activities, but I gather...

Weapons, guns, weaponry. Ray Allen, when we spoke a few months ago, was saying that the... I lost you again. Can you hear me now? Again, yes. Okay. Ray Allen was saying when we talked on my show a few months ago that there were various factions within the CIA which, well, one of them she indicated, owned Denny's Restaurant, I think. Is that right? I think they have a vested interest in it. I don't know whether they own it, but they do have evident control of certain areas of the country.

And another faction she indicated had a substantial portion of Pepsi-Cola. Well, again, that's true as far as the statement is concerned. However, please bear in mind that PepsiCo International, and I'm specifically referring to the international headquarters in Barcelona, Spain, where Peter Van Turing was the executive vice president in charge of inter-European and inter-American affairs, Mexico International offered itself, as did IBM and a number of other major European concerns or Americo-European concerns, offered themselves to permit American operatives, operatives that we chose to work with us, but never even to the point where personnel identification was established and housing established at housing and other interface work was accomplished through the PepsiCo channels. That is true and correct.

Yeah. Ray did not understate the issue. If anything, she understated it. Well, what we were sort of leaking to there was the, this was just about the time that the little episode of the hydrodermic needles in PepsiCo cans came to light, and she was indicating a very strong likelihood that this was some of the interplay between the two factions trying to get at each other. Well, I think that that thought was pretty well held to by a number of people within the agency proper. However, since then, I think that we've determined there's only been one or two real incidents. The rest of them were contrived. You personally, I gather, were involved in setting up a number of of the covert kinds of organizations, financial organizations in the Missouri area? In the Missouri area as well as Chicago and Denver, etc., yes.

Yeah, and these were CIA front activities then? They were proprietary operations owned and operated by the agency through its small parties yet. How many of these kinds of operations do you suppose there are around the country? We're talking about minor ones or major ones? Well, let's talk about the major ones then. Major ones, I would say about 50 to 200 that were scattered throughout the United States. We're talking about agency operations, not Department of Justice, right?

Yeah. Okay. So the Department of Justice is in addition to the agencies. Absolutely. We work hand in hand with DOJ, especially when it comes to setting up law firms or going in with the U.S. District Courts or setting up corrupt trustee systems. That's amazing. Well, just as an example of how some of this works, what were you personally involved in then, and how did this benefit the overall goals of... Are we talking again about agency operations?

My particular MC or forte? Yeah, your particular activities. I gathered that there was an investment company of some kind that you were directly involved with. There were a number of them. Let me begin, if you like, at the beginning. First of all, we began with using considerable sums of agency funds to buy the charter of an existing SML in Red Hill, Pennsylvania. It was called Hill Financial Savings and Loan. Okay, we did real well.

On the contrary, we didn't know what the government would do with all the money we were making. So we were making overdue loans, zero interest, and we didn't give a hoot whether they were paid back or not. But to the local citizenry in Pennsylvania, as well as West Virginia, and so on, the Appalachian coal areas. We lost about $55 million in the first year of giving out the sham loans. However, the influx of additional CIA funds, money that came from various operations such as drug and weaponry, brought another $243 million to the table, so we didn't really know how to absorb it. We took the funds and we began with Hill Financial Services, Inc., which was a spin-off of Hill Savings and Loan. I was the chairman of the board of both the organizations, and Donald Blunt, L-U-T-Z, was the president and part-time CTO.

We took turns rotating. So anyway, these funds were put back into the Federal Reserve, or we took the funds and went to the Federal Reserve and said, well, if you're here to do business with us, we'd like to have extensions of credit so we can grow within the community or the Eastern Appalachian area. Got there. Could you hold right there, please, so I can... The Federal Reserve granted us at times 3.5 or 5.5 to 1 for every deposit dollar we showed, the Federal Reserve ran a line of credit equal to three and a half, and sometimes as much as five times the amount of our deposit value or asset portfolio value. With these funds, we then began other companies throughout the United States. One of the companies that I was directly involved in and began with was a brokerage organization by the name of National Brokerage Company. Very simple, small, proprietary, sole proprietorship in St. Louis area.

Within a matter of about four and a half months, National Brokerage Company had grown by such an astronomical proportion that it had to be incorporated and then spun off with four different other organizations. So National Brokerage Company became National Brokerage Companies Incorporated and National Brokerage Companies International. Then became National Financial Services, National Realty, National Leasing and such as that. We began to expand in the marketplace by properties, manufacturing areas such as Southwest Latex Incorporated. And then we turned our head to the airline industry. This is probably where we made the most significant impact.

This is how we got in touch with the Denver-based groups that were interested in subverting funds that were intended for airport expansion projects, with the MDC Metropolitan Development Corporation, which in turn led us to Keating and Company of Soviets. Oh, so you had a little involvement with Keating. Pre-emptively. Some people stole more than others, please note that. How would you rate Mr. Keating on that scale then. I would write him initially that he was about an 85% real thief and a 15% victim. In the later years he became about an 85% victim and 15% thief.

His own people turned the tables on him. A lot of what he's been charged with or adjudicated for was not of his doing, was the doing of his board of directors. Is that right? So? Which Larry Mazzello was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors.

He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors.

He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. He was one of the board of directors. Is that right? And Richie Larry Mazzello was one of the board of directors. Well, I wanted to get into that a little bit just to kindly give an idea of the immensity of the activities of the CIA as I have been able to try to discern those.

And obviously the CIA activities, if you were able to do that with just your little projects, then the percentage of CIA activities to the gross national product must be pretty significant then. I think that's a very fair statement. But let me add a point here, or a caveat, if you prefer. What began as a small business in St. Louis, Missouri, ended up in an international brokerage company in New Jersey with some of the mob-related families out of Chicago that built the entire Traverse City Convention Area and Arena and the entire housing project that lays behind it. They did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money.

They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money.

They had a lot of money, but they did not have a lot of money. project that lays behind it. Not only did National Brokerage Company in conjunction with Michigan National Bank fund projects that totaled into the billions of dollars, but they also began to explore acquiring and purchasing of cargo and transport aircraft. The transport came to be Apollo Air, Apex Air and the other CIA operations. They were all initially chartered, purchased and chartered out of a national brokerage company, Tom. So it became a very, very lucrative business. It was a money funnel without end. Wow. If you had started doing that before you got into the CIA, you would have ended up being a real mogul, wouldn't you? I made a terrible mistake. I believe that excitement may not propel the loss, but it saved him money. The Lord only knows I've had more than my share of excitement.

Well, let's talk about one of the primary areas of excitement, and that being the October surprise. Could you describe your particular portion of the scenario of the October Surprise. Well, where would you like for me to start? Would you like me to start pre-October Surprise or the so-called fateful weekend? Well, maybe a little bit of the prelude to the weekend would be good. All right. Prior to the actual October Surprise, which took place the October 19th weekend of 1980, a number of meetings were set. Most of these meetings were held in Europe, only one of them was held in New York City. I attended, along with a couple of my cohorts, meetings in Barcelona, Spain, meetings in Madrid, meetings in Geneva, Switzerland.

So I was very well knowledgeable of some of the events that led up to that weekend. But the main reason that I would like to share with you, the reason that I was brought into the, let's call it an operation to begin with, was the fact that I spoke fluent German. One of the individuals out of the Iranian delegation spoke only Iranian or Persian. French and German and English. That's why Leon was involved. That was a good translator. Okay, we lost the microphone there for just a minute. We're sort of balancing things here. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. I'm sorry, we lost the microphone right there. We're kind of balancing this thing on my knee here. And anyway, you were involved in that because you were fluent in languages, in German particularly.

Particularly in German, but I also did very good work in English and French and a number of other languages. But I was part of the time in Vienna, Austria running an advertising company, point of sales, re-advertising for the agency. So that put you into the right place at the right time, as you say. But again, bear in mind I lived in St. Louis, Missouri at the time, we're a suburb of St. Louis. So when the actual October trip took place, I was summoned to Washington, D.C. via telephone call and told basically to pack one bag and get on the next available commercial aircraft and get to Washington. And from there I think the entire October surprise is now airstream for pseudo-airstreams that Mr. Bush and Kate do not want to accept as such. Now you ended up being a pilot. I've heard reports that you were the pilot of the YF-12A coming back to the United States, Mr. George Bush as a passenger. So you were on, you were the command pilot going over, and who else was on the, who were the passengers, passengers on that flight? I think that there's a pretty extensive passenger list already of who was on board that aircraft going over.

And I've on a number of occasions given out the list, so I think E.J. would probably be able to supply you with a copy of the list, a regular can, but for a point of time-wise, I don't think he could go through the whole thing. Okay. There were a lot of people on board. Well, okay, suffice to say that some of the, Bush and Casey were there among many others I guess. Right, and there was one that was on board, Eddie or Chris, one particular individual that I would like to see, you know, basically brought to justice is idiot Ross Minkowski out of Illinois.

Oh, he was on that flight? Absolutely, and if you look at my depositions with Ross Eastidge, you'll find that I gave extensive coverage to this individual more than two and a half years ago. Ah, well, Rostenkowski may be in a position of having his comeuppance here pretty quick if these hearings in the house get going. Don't count on it, okay? Because I see much more stable and favorable information and data get swept under the rug. Yeah. Well, the trip back in the SR-71 is something that has been a little bit controversial. I had, I was talking about this on the air, somebody called up and said it's impossible that the SR-71 requires a co-pilot in the back in order to fly this thing.

It doesn't require one. I don't know how to keep from making assumptions. The SR-71 is perfectly capable of sustaining flight with one individual on board. There have been a lot of strange statements that have come out of the press, I'm talking about specifically the mainstream media, as well as some of the other media, regarding that slide fact. And it would appear that the YF-12A is a three-seater. Please know there were no three-seat YF-12As or SR-71 models ever throughout the entire history of the 71 program. There were one and two-seaters. There are some people that took great objection to the fact that the 71 had a two-seater version? Please know, most of them were two-seaters. Only the initial ones that were brought off the line from the scut works were one-seater models. And also, it needs to be stretched and stated beyond any point of debate that the YS-12A or SR-71 is perfectly capable of operating at lower levels of flight.

So, if an aircraft, a 71 with a passenger, let's say a non-qualified high-flying passenger, returns to the United States at a lower altimeter reading than going at the close rate with me, where it's basically the same speed, it does not affect the physical well-being of the passenger or the pilot. Okay. That comes to be when you reach the outer reaches of the ionosphere and the fringes of space. Gunther, where does the name Richard Brannake fit into this scenario? Richard, again, I use the word regressively, one of my cousins. And by that I'm talking about a true family member. Richard and I go back many, many years, all the way to when he marked on that box. General?

Oh, yes. I wasn't sure if I had caught you. Oh yes, we were expecting a continuation of the story. Are you... Well Richard and I have had our falling out in the past. We operated on joint operations in the Central American countries, specifically Central American Highlands. We did some work, some joint work in the Mena-Arkansar area. We did a lot of joint work in Europe as far as arranging for transport of certain weapons systems to Iran. And also to areas such as Libya, along with other individuals of whom are presently incarcerated.

Richard and I have not always seen eye to eye. Richard has asserted certain powers of a trust that we were both members of, and he served as Secretary of Police, which he should have done, buying and selling helicopters and vintage lamps and things for candy, to which I took exception. But other than that, he is a cousin of mine, therefore blood is thicker than water. I will stand by him. also. Was Richard Bradecki also on that flight? Oh yes, Richard was the co-pilot on that air. Okay, he was the co-pilot on the flight. The BAC-111 on the way over. Yeah, and so he was going over there. Of course, George Bush Landley denies the fact that he was in Paris on that weekend. And I think a lot of them had to do with, a lot of the stories that he's told had to do with the fact that both he and Anne received some quite severe threats from Uncle Sam.

And should he justify what would be a serious trouble, now, not that Richard had certain indiscretions with a certain lady from the East Coast, which in turn took a lot of the documents that Richard had and masterdized them and turned them around against Richard. So George Bush proudly denies being in Paris, but he was technically correct because this whole meeting... George Bush doesn't deny being in Paris. Bush denies not being in the country. Yeah. On that 24-hour period, please bear in mind that that's exactly what we're talking about, a period of time less than 24 hours. Yeah, now technically he was correct in saying it wasn't in Paris because this meeting took place in the suburb of Paris, so he could weasel around. Yeah.

Now on that flight back, there was a cockpit... What? On the flight back from Paris in the SR-71... Back up please, I lost you there for a bit and I don't want to take your questions or contacts. Okay. On the flight back, on the return flight with George Bush in the... Yeah....in the... Yeah.

..in the... Yeah....in the... Yeah....in the... Yeah....in the... Yeah. Okay, on the flight back, on the return flight with George Bush in the backseat there, there was a videotape made of the passenger and I understand of yourself also, is that correct?

That is correct, yes. And that videotape was said to have been taken to the, I guess the Pentagon, and this tape was very explosive, and this was still prior to the election back in, a year or so ago, and it resulted in George Bush's having the football taken away from him back then. That is correct. And please bear in mind also that the tape was made available to Congressman Lee Hamilton and Larry Barcella. Both of whom went to the agency headquarters and gladly had viewed the tape. There is a taped conversation between Congressman Hamilton, Larry Barcella, myself, and my wife, where Barcella and Hamilton were not aware of the fact that they were being taped and recorded, and they stated, unacreditably, yes, they had seen the tape. Where do you think that tape is now?

And uh... I don't know if I should even say, because the last time I made sure or made certain of delivery of a copy of the tape, the individual lost his life thanks to it. And I'm referring specifically to Paul David Wilshire, my prior attorney. And that was a recent, a fairly recent occurrence, it wasn't, but within the last few weeks.