This is side 2, or B, of the second tape, and we're going to be listening to a tape done by Jeff Rents in Santa Barbara, an interview with a gentleman named James Norman. And we'll begin now. And now, here's Jim. Good evening once again everyone. My guest tonight is one whom you will not soon forget. His name is James R. Norman and he will tell you things tonight that will leave you stunned, amazed, and astonished. But above all, his story may leave you with the hope that there just might be a future for this country's morally forlorn, ruthlessly corrupt, and remarkably inept governmental process after all.

James Norman is one of America's premier investigative journalists who puts his facts where many others place innuendo and hype. James Norman's articles appear in a number of publications, most notably in the current issue of Media Bypass Magazine, in an article entitled, Congressional Retirees Leaving Voluntarily, and We Should All Believe in Mother Goose. I will now quote from the beginning of that article. One after another in recent months, big-name U.S. Senators and Representatives have announced that they are, quote, retiring. Since the last election, a record 45 members of Congress have decided not to run for re-election or have outright resigned from office. Not in a hundred years has there been such an exodus.

And it is not over. Dozens of other lawmakers and powerful governmental leaders are privately hinting that they may be leaving office soon. Nor are these Departees the obscure backbench sitters. They are among the most powerful people in the most powerful government that has ever existed on the earth, with egos to match. Take a look at the list. Look at all the committee chairmen, or ranking minority members who would be committee chairman if the Democrats regained control. Look at the powerful committees or subcommittees they are on. Appropriations, rules, armed services, agriculture. Look at the startling last minute withdrawal of retired General Colin Powell as a potential candidate for president, a job for which many pundits had him pegged as a shoe-in. Common sense and history teach that people with this kind of power, pay, and perks don't give them up easily or without good reason.

Here now to expose the incredible real reasons for the rash of retirements is my guest tonight, James R. Norman. Jim, are you there? Yes, hi Jim. How are you tonight? Oh, pretty good. Good. Let's list some of the key congressmen, senators, politicians and corporate executives, Jim, that have quote resigned or quote retired recently and perhaps you might mention some of the excuses they have been given.

Yeah, well it's a long list. It's as long as your arm. It sure is. Some of the most notable names in the first wave, there was Sam Dunn, former chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Pat Schroeder, ranking Democrat in the House. Mark Hatzfield, the chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee. Alan Simpson, big time Republican in the Senate. Then you have a whole slew of others, Paul Simon, Howell Haviland. Then you just had Bill Cohen from Maine, a Senator from Maine, announced he's not running again.

I mean, they're like dropping like flies. Yeah, Clayborne Pell. Yeah. James Exxon. Exxon too, right. And how many Representatives from Congress? Just a whole raft of them. Yeah, it's... I've lost track. In fact, since the story came out, there's been a dozen more or so just since the story ran.

I think the count is approaching 60 now, I think. Yeah, what is the standard excuse that they're giving? It's amazing. A bunch of these people have said, oh, I want to go spend more time with my family. And then a bunch of others who've been interviewed on the TV talk shows and in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times, they say, oh, the tone of discourse in Congress is so uncivilized these days. Right, right.

Nasty politics where you can't stand it now that the Republicans are in control. Morally we plugged into them. Yes, yeah. Of course, about a third of the retirees here are Republicans themselves. And look, things are no more nasty in Washington than they ever have been. I mean, it's always been politics. It's always been the political. Sure. Now things just don't make sense. A lot of these people have just had no good excuse.

They say, oh well, enough's enough. Time to go home. Been here long enough. I didn't want to do this all my life anyway. Right. Well, Pat Schroeder, as you mentioned in the article, says she wants to give up her $133,000 a year job to be a writer. Pat, don't quit your day job to be a writer. Right. And Nancy Kassebaum, a very famous family behind her, Alf Landon of course, wants to go back to, as you say, her little farmhouse on the prairie.

Yeah, yeah, she did a long interview with the New York Times and the only plausible excuse she gave there in the story was, well, I've got this little farmhouse out there on a prairie in Kansas, I want to go back there. She's only 62 or something like that. How about Alan Simpson? He was carping about he has to raise $10,000 a week just for re-election. It's too expensive and too draining on him. How much would it cost you to hand deliver a huge packet of propaganda to every person? And the fact of the matter is, he can raise $10,000 a week with a few phone calls. These people are sitting on a gravy train.

So the cost doesn't make it. It just isn't the problem to raise the money People just don't walk away from these incredibly powerful prestigious status positions without good reason. That's right And your reasoning and your determined efforts to find out what happened has led us to an astonishing revelation here What is really going on James? It basically boils down to somebody knows about their Swiss bank account with bank accounts. You mean there's graft and corruption and money going overseas without proper accounting? Yes, I know you're shocked, shocked that this could be happening.

But in fact, yes, and it's not been that big a secret, but what's happened is that essentially a handful of guys, former intelligence community guys, As in CIA? CIA, NSA, the National Security Agency, there's a raft of government intelligence agencies. Nobody has any idea how huge the intelligence community is in this country. But some of these people are just so fed up with the bipartisan corruption of payola that's been going on, they've just decided in effect to take things into their own hands.

How many, James? I think it's just a handful of guys. I don't even know it specifically. I'm told it's a group of five guys, they call themselves the fifth column. And I've been dealing with in particular one of these guys, actually a couple of them for about eight months now. Their predictions have been eerily accurate. They've been telling me this is going to happen for months and months and I said, oh, come on, this is silly. Boy, next thing you know you've got 50, 60 retirements from Congress. What they've been telling me keeps coming true. There's no other explanation for this.

What they have said makes sense. It's internally consistent. It is technologically feasible. This is what I'm learning from a whole bunch of bank and computer people. Before we get into the computer aspect of it, were they ever naming names to you? Were these people saying, okay, Senator Simpson is going to announce his retirement. Schroeder is going to bow out. Was it a name name kind of thing or just a trend is coming Jim Norman? Well it was sort of a little of both. Mostly the trend is coming, the trend is coming and then they'd say well you're going to see a lady out west soon.

Boing there goes Pat Schroeder. Now you're going to see a fellow down in Alabama. Boing there goes Tom Bevel, the king of pork I think was his nickname. And it was eerie and this whole thing with Colin Powell, they were telling me months and months and months, don't worry Colin Powell ain't going to run for office. He ain't going to run for office. He ain't going to run for office. And look there was a huge hoopla build up for this thing. I mean this was like a steamroller rolling downhill to get Colin Powell. I mean to cover a time, to cover a news week.

This guy was out there on the end of the springboard and he decided to go home. You could almost feel the energy mounting, you're right, it was a big massive effort to put him in there at one point and all of a sudden, pop, the balloon is gone. Right. Amazing. Were you approached or did you ferret out these sources yourself through mutual contact? The way this whole thing evolved is the most bizarre thing. I mean, it's like, I feel like a Woody Allen character who stumbled into the midst of this huge thing that's going on. I had no idea what I was getting into on this thing. I mean, look, I'm a business reporter. I've been a business reporter for 20 years.

You wrote for Forbes magazine. I was a business week for 10 years. I worked at Forbes as a senior editor at Forbes for 5 years. There I was doing sort of heavy duty financial investigative type stuff. And I got into looking at an oil company bankruptcy in Connecticut, which always smelled pretty fishy to me because there was no reason for this company to then lose the money the way that it did. In fact, when you go back and look at the funny oil trading going on, it was a front to funnel money to yet another oil company that was financing arms sales to Iraq during the 1980s.

It turns out it was one of a number of covert arms funding mechanisms, money laundering systems that apparently were being run and set up. That led me into looking at the government's use of some particularly stolen software, which was also being sold to the Iraqis, it turns out, for use by their intelligence community. I said, now this is very bizarre. What was the name of that software? Well, it turns out there's been a long running legal case in Washington involving a little company called Inslaw. Sure, the Inslaw thing led to the death of Danny Costellaro and a lot of other problems. Yeah, well Inslaw was just one of many things that Danny was looking at. He was also looking at arms sales. He was also looking at offshore bank accounts.

And in fact I think that's what was the proximate thing that led to his death because he was found supposedly committed suicide, but the fact he had it was a wrist slash, like 12 times deep. He had to cut the tendon in a motel room in Martinsburg, Virginia, which happens to be the home of a major IRS data facility. My information is that he probably had gained access to some IRS data he wasn't supposed to have on some people who didn't want him to have it. All this stuff is going to Iraq, you know, I think we might just punctuate this with a note that a tremendous amount of intelligence data, arms, munitions, chemical and biological warfare components, if not the finished product, were going to Iraq throughout the mid-80s prior to Operation Desert Storm.

Oh, right. I mean, it dwarfed the Iran-Contra thing. Yeah, it's amazing. The Iran-Contra was just a sideshow. That's right. To what was going to Iraq. Exactly. Huge amounts of armaments, all of which was technically illegal to export, which means somebody had to be getting kickbacks and money on this stuff. Major money. We're going to take our first break, James Norman, right now and come back and finish this story, this first part of it up as we continue here. At the end of the line.

We're back with James Norman. We're talking about the incredible story of so many congressman and senators retiring early, spontaneously almost, but there's a lot of things going on here that we're going to reveal to you in the next section or two which will amaze you. Do not miss a word of it. All right, Jim, we're at the point where you're looking into this oil company in Connecticut that's losing lots of money. All right. Which turned out to be a front for arms sales to Iraq, and among the other stuff that was getting sold to Iraq by this Chilean arms dealer Carlos Cardon was software for use by Iraq's intelligence community. The Inslaw software. Yes, what people believe was a derivative of the Inslaw software was originally called Promise. It was designed for tracking legal cases. That's right.

Now the thing about this software is that it was easily customized without having to rewrite all the code. You could just rewrite some stuff on the front end and it would go track anything that you wanted it to track which would make it greatly adaptable particularly in an intelligence community use where you're developing elaborate files on people. It also turns out got customized for use in the banking system for tracking money particularly in tracking it in the form of wire transfers. It became extremely valuable in connection with a major intelligence effort this country undertook beginning in the early 1980s. It was called Follow the Money and it was an effort to surveil foreign banking transactions. We've been doing this since the early 1980s now and it's probably one of the greatest intelligence coups ever accomplished on the planet, we've been scooping up vast amounts of data on money flows.

And in fact, Bill Casey, former head of the CIA, he crowed that his crowning achievement of his time in the intelligence community was this establishment of what amounted to a real-time surveillance of world money flows. Partly the way they did it was by installing bug software and bug computers in most of banks which the banks sort of I think knowingly accepted just because they had to in fact if they wanted to do business in New York they sort of had to swallow and take this up. Some of them might not have understood just how elaborate the surveillance was but the point is that there was this massive banking intelligence effort underway and this we've got on the record from people who are involved in that during the Reagan administration.

Now to accomplish that the National Security Agency which is the signals intelligence arm of our government used various front companies, cutouts as they would be called. One of these companies we've learned was a company in Little Rock, its name was Systematics, it was owned by Jackson Stevens, 100%. You mean Arkansas? Arkansas. A coincidence if there ever was one. Yeah. This was a company, a small company, for bank data processing. But somehow or other it ended up, especially in the late 1980s, landing contracts all over the world to install banking software.

Very curious. interface people between Systematics and the NSA was Vincent Foster, who was a chief lawyer at the Rose Law firm. More than a lawyer, he was a deal guy for Jack Stevens. Hillary Clinton was an attorney of record for Systematics. She represented that company in a key 1977 legal case in which Jack Stevens on behalf of the BCCI crowd tried to take over a Washington bank holding company which later became First American, you know, run by Clark Clifford and Robert Altman. Sure, sure. Part of the deal was they wanted to bring in systematics to do all the data processing for that bank.

Now when you understand that BCCI essentially was a huge money laundering, arms financing and intelligence, then it starts to make much more sense here of what was going on. That gets us into this whole bank spying thing and that's how FitzFoster's picture, name came up in this. I went to Kentucky one night to interview this former intelligence guy who I was told was going to be able to fill me in on some of the uses of the software. And as we were sitting there, he was blowing smoke green in the middle of the night, and he said, oh, you know, Vince, he was under investigation when he died. I said, under investigation? By whom?

And he said, well, it's spelled S-P-O-N-A-G-E. Really? I said, you've got to be kidding me. And for months, I was just incredulous about this. This is nuts man. It's Foster spying in the White House? Come on. And the guy is really blowing smoke rings when he's telling you this. Yeah. Uh...

He wasn't fooling. What we did then was go back and try to corroborate this through other channels in the intelligence community. And thinking that, oh well, we'll get this denied right away. No. It came back corroborated. Yes, Foster was under investigation. In fact, he was under intensive surveillance by a bunch of government agencies, apparently. This was heavy duty stuff. Yeah, what year was this? This would have been, I'm told it began sometime between the election and the inauguration of Bill Clinton. But that's when I think Foster became under intense scrutiny.

And it would have been a period of months prior to his death in July 1993. So he was already up to his knees in Eskimo Niles prior to the election. Yeah, I'm told that he had probably had a relationship for maybe 10 years or so with the state of Israel. The Mossad. Well, the state of Israel, I guess the Mossad, yeah. They were paying big money for U.S. secrets. I mean, there's no surprise about this. This is what the Pollard case is all about. They spy on us. We spy on them. That's right We're allies. We're friends. We cooperate in many ways, but there's a lot of things we don't tell And in fact, they were paying big bucks for high-level code particularly nuclear secrets How else can you explain how a dead written little third world country?

Basically has mass from the most potent nuclear arsenals on the face of the earth. It wasn't by sheer luck and by accident. It was well planned and heavily funded and they'd done well. If I was running Israel, I'd do exactly the same thing. But the thing is, they were spying on us. And people here were selling out to us. Well, they still are spying on us. Well, I imagine so. Now, this is the problem. Part of the way they found out about Vince was... They being who, James?

Well, this counterintelligence group. And actually, how this actually happened is a bit murky to me. But what I think happened was in the process of... There was this small intelligence group, computer hacker group, basically, that was out there surveilling a foreign intelligence database again using this bug software it would allow us to basically snoop in and they actually downloaded like 50 databases of foreign intelligence communities. Wow. I mean just about even the KGB was using this stuff apparently and they were able to download KGB files which I'm told was actually how they found out about Ames originally. Well back in 1991 years before the CIA admits suspecting him.

Right, Oliver James. Right. From that suspicion, they were able to go and they actually found a Swiss bank account that was Foster's. It's located at the Banca dell'Assiziare d'Italiana. It's a relatively small Swiss bank. It used to be affiliated with a bank at Brocciano. Now a subsidiary of Swiss Bank Corp. It's one of these kind of, it's in this town called Tuscany, and it's a very small town in the middle of the city.

It's a very small town. It's a very small town. It's a very small town. It's a very small town. It's a very small town. It's a very small town. It's a very small town. It's a very small town. It's a very small town. It's a very small town.

It's in this town called Chausa which is right on the Italian border. It's a lot of funny money stuff going on there. Foster had actually several bank accounts at that bank but one in particular had almost 3 million dollars in it which had been traced to Israeli accounts. After some surveillance they determined that this was Foster's account, that the money had come from illicit sources. And in early July 1993, July 1, 1993, Foster bought round-trip tickets for a one-day trip to Geneva and back from the White House travel office. And mysteriously, he cancelled that trip before he took it. I think it's because he found out that that money had been raided again by this computer counterintelligence group that once they had been able to identify the money in their account and once they could snoop inside the bank and actually get the authorization code off that account, they could go in and effect their own technically legitimate wire transfer of that money and they cleaned out the account, they pulled the money back to an account of the US Treasury.

So this fifth column of intelligence agents with all this incredible sophisticated computer software had cracked all the banking codes, the access codes, they drained Vince Foster's bank account just before he apparently was headed over to do something with it and Vince realizing his account was now Zippo, what happened then? He knew he was under surveillance, he knew the jig was up and that coincides completely with this mysterious bout of depression that everybody claims overcame. In fact, Webb Humble, his buddy and former Webb Rose Wofford partner, had never really described it as depression. He said Vince was worried. He was afraid to use the White House telephones.

He was nervous. He couldn't sleep at night. He had heart palpitations. His sister tried to set him up with some psychiatrists. He never contacted any of them. Instead, he went and hired a high-powered Washington lawyer, this guy Jim Hamilton, who guess what? President Clinton just appointed to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. Very curious. There's something very fishy going on here. But the thing about this whole Foster case is, Foster ends up being just a tiny bit of the picture. In fact, because the problem is he's not the only one they found with one of these Swiss accounts.

They found hundreds of other high-level U.S. government officials. And again, you say they were talking about this group that calls itself the fifth column and there are five or six guys maybe doing this. Yeah. Okay. Who has actually done what here? It's very curious. I think that the intelligence community in general has known for a long time that there are a lot of these Swiss accounts. But I think the problem was there was no practical way any law enforcement agency could go after them because it was a bipartisan thing.

Everybody was going to help cover this thing up. No agency had enough political power to actually go and nail any of these people. What I think ultimately happened was the Fifth Column group, after witnessing this gridlock for years and years and years, decades I think this was going on, they decided, look, we can do this ourselves. They managed to get a hold of a used Cray supercomputer from Clark Air Force Base after it closed. Really? Yes. Normally, civilians are not allowed to buy these things, partly because they are so useful for hacking because they crunch numbers so fast.

Sure. They can throw enough numbers at a security system, they can bust their way in just by sheer force. Wow. So, civilians are generally not allowed to buy these things. They got a hold of one used on the cheap. I think it's a small air-cooled machine that can actually be put in the back of a truck. And I think that thing is rolling around the country in what looks like a refrigerated truck with an on-board generator and a satellite uplink. Otherwise the thing would be shut down if that's what's located and stop it.

So I think by doing that for the past five years they've been downloading databases. The first priority was the foreign intelligence databases. They pulled those down. 50 of them you said, right? Yeah. That's incredible. Then they went after the banks. And I think it was going through the bank stuff, that's where they really came across the foster stuff. And then when they came across foster's name in that Swiss bank account, then they went back and looked through the Mossad databases and oh, yep, there it is.

Here's these money flows and I guess they found something that correlated to Foster's name or code name or something. I don't know. But they found Foster's. Something that would indicate Foster's connection to Mossad. And guess what? Hillary too. Hillary apparently has been under investigation for being a party to this, for taking a piece of the action off that Swiss campaign, probably for providing Foster with extremely sensitive code stuff. And how many years have they been working together? 15 years, something like that? This goes back into the mid-70s, actually. That's right. A long time. So, all right, it's looking pretty dark for Arkansas and the Clintons and all of their retinue right now. There's sworn testimony as part of the Senate investigation by Deborah Gorham, Vince Foster's executive assistant, that shortly before he died, Vince had given her two inch thick ring binders that Deborah Gorham identified as being from the National Security Agency. And Vince had her put those in the safe of Bernie Nussbaum, the White House Counsel. Newsweek ran this little blurb saying, oh NSA binders, not to worry, it was just routine legal stuff from the NSA.

Wrong. These were extremely sensitive binders. They had the codes, and more important than that, the protocol by which the president would authenticate himself to the Pentagon when he ordered military action, including the use of nuclear weapons. Those are the ultimate numbers, the big numbers. That's right, they're not launch codes per se, that's a different set of codes. They're identifier codes, I get it. Yeah, this is how the guy on the other end of the phone at the Pentagon knows it's the President calling. These code books should only have resided in the safe in the Oval Office or in the possession of the military attachés who carry the so-called football with them or they could have been in the presidential living quarters.

How did Vince Foster end up with these things? What was he doing with them? Did he have a security clearance for them? No, but he did have a security clearance, apparently, a relatively low level security clearance. That in itself is interesting because everybody denies that he had anything to do with the intelligence community. Right, right. Jim, let's take break number two now. Hold that thought and we'll continue with the story of Vince Foster who was found dead shortly thereafter in a park some 200 yards inside the park boundaries with no dirt on his shoes from the park itself very interesting so we could jump that far and commit suicide. We'll hear that story as we continue here at the end of the line.

Fox Radio 990 KQSV. Our guest tonight James R. Norman who has written an amazing article in this month's media bypass magazine entitled Congressional Retirees Leaving Voluntarily. And we should all believe in Mother Goose. We are now talking about Vince Foster. We are coming up to the fatal moments here. Go right ahead, Jim. Yeah, well, the last few days of Vince Foster's life, a very curious chain of events occurred there. There was this strange meeting the weekend before he died.

Vince and his wife, Lisa, took off to the eastern shore of Maryland supposedly for a getaway weekend. Right. By sheer coincidence, according to the Fisk Report, they meet Webster Hubble and Hubble's wife down there. I remember that. Yeah, right. And so they decide, well, let's go over to Michael Cardoza's place. Michael Cardoza, he's now the head of Clinton's Legal Defense Fund. He's the son-in-law of Nathan Landau, a big-deal Democratic contributor, close ties to Israel, and they supposedly, according to all the official reports, it was a casual weekend of poolside chit-chat. Wrong.

This was damage control. I think at this point it was clear that this was under investigation, that this was heavy duty stuff. There was concern that he was going to crack, that he was going to decide to just go public and expose some of this stuff and I think he became a real liability. The man who knew too much and Monday came and went back in the office. The record shows that he had a bunch of people come by soliciting about how the weekend went, are you cool with everything, is everything okay and he seemed to be calmer, as if he had resolved something in his mind. And in fact, there was a strange two-hour meeting with Marcia Scott, one of the people in the Arkansas contentions in the White House.

Marcia claims she doesn't recall what they talked about. But they met for two hours in his office, very unusual. After which she went back and reported to her boss, Webster Humble, that Vince had apparently made the decision that he was worried about, or that he was thinking about. Then Tuesday, the next day, Vince apparently leaves early in the afternoon and shows up dead, supposedly in Fort Marcy Park. In fact, what I've been told, and we published this in a December issue of Media Bypass, he was under intense surveillance. I mean, the Secret Service had him under surveillance while he was on the White House grounds. As soon as he left, the FBI and the NSA had surveillance teams on him. There's also CIA, I think, surveillance of the house, the apartment that he was renting near the White House. Where he went apparently met a woman there, I'm told, from the White House staff.

Then there's also apparently video footage of a three-person team entering that apartment, supposedly identified as being connected in some way to the Mossad. It's apparent that death occurred. Who actually pulled the trigger? I don't know, but certainly it seems that elements of the Mossad were intimately involved in knowing about it, setting it up, probably covering it up. It raises the question whether elements of our own intelligence participated in or facilitated this hit in some way. And if you go back and look at the official records, there's all these curious anomalies. In fact, there's an accountant in Houston, Hugh Sprung, who's done an excellent job of just pointing out all of the telltale things in all of these official reports, which clearly if you read this stuff in detail, you just cannot come away thinking it was a suicide the way they propose it.

There is a stamp of national security, there is a cloak just thrown all over this thing. It seems to me that Vince Foster represented a danger to several intelligence agencies and governments all at the same time. That's right, because as I was saying, Vince is like a window that you can look through to see a vast landscape of corruption. It wasn't just his Swiss accounts, all these other Swiss accounts. And it's the fact that a bunch of people were participating in the sale of state secrets. And in fact I think when the truth finally comes out you'll see that a lot of people have been doing this stuff. They treat it as if it's a perk of office. It's like checking into a cheap motel. Anything that's not nailed down, the towels, the televisions, the cases, we'll sell them. The soap. Yes.

And in this case, the towels are nuclear secrets. Sure. Yeah. So... Well, you've got the fifth column, draining Foster's bank account. He becomes a tremendous liability. Vince Foster is eradicated. Thus, we have a good look at the basic M.O. of the fifth column. Four, five, six guys, allegedly with a Cray computer, possibly in a refrigerator-looking van, a semi, with a dish on the top, driving around the country, who knows where, parking out in front of banks I would assume, snooping, eavesdropping, and draining them of lots of information, building these astonishing databases, including the databases of 50 intelligence agencies, which in and of itself is mind-boggling.

The way that works was that the fifth column guys pulled down those intelligence databases and turned those back over to the intelligence community. What the intelligence community really wanted were the backdoor addresses into the banks. I think they initially got those backdoors, but before they were able to use them, they were changed. And new backdoors were installed, and so BasicPay, this fifth column crowd, has had a field day downloading bank data for about five years. For the last two years, they've actually been out raiding Swiss accounts. The same way they raided Foster's, where you go in, you find an account, say a coded Swiss account.

Supposedly, you can't tell whose name is associated with it. But if you can get into a bank's computer files, or if you've got a snitch inside the bank who can tell you whose account that is. And most everybody has a price, don't they? Right. It's $25,000 or so, I think, their information on a Swiss account. You match that up and then if you can track and assure yourself that the money in that account is basically dirty money. What these guys have done, they've just wire transferred this money back to the US Treasury where it's being held on told in an escrow account, escrowed for use by the CIA, but only if and only if the CIA gets rid of a bunch of its own corrupt bad apples.

You have to realize large portions of the senior and middle management of the CIA has got dirty hands from drug and arms dealing. The CIA has been fundamentally corrupted by these illicit businesses that it's been running. Supposedly to further the covert, legitimate foreign policy aims of our government, but in fact these people have been raking in the dough in their own pockets off this stuff. It's utterly corrupt. How much money has been brought back from these Swiss accounts? Mine, by the way, is still okay over there. I don't know. I haven't checked it in the last day or so. Well, after tonight, I guess I'd better. These people are even afraid to go ask to see what's in their accounts, or fear they're going to leave some fingerprints on their accounts. I mean, it's got... Washington is in utter state of fright over this. I'll have someone else check mine then.

You're right. Well, I think that's how Hillary was very shrewd about this. Vince, in effect, was her bag man. Her fingerprints don't show up on this stuff, which is why I think they had a lay-down case against Vince. Not so good against Hillary. That's why you're seeing the Travelgate and Whitewater stuff going on. The crimes mentioned in these particular cases are paining any stops in the grand scheme of things. It's not worth bringing a president down.

There's something else underneath here. Sure, white water is the flea on the dog's back. Right, and so is Travelgate. But why were they so apoplectic about getting the professional people out of the travel office? Well, if Vince was taking periodic one-day trips to Geneva, booking them through the White House travel office, maybe you don't want that kind of information to get out anywhere. In fact, they've gone to great pains to not get it out. We found out about it because there was a private investigator in Arkansas who was able to get access to some of Foster's private American Express records which showed these charges and the refunds.

And in fact, just before Vince died, it showed he bought $2,400 of travel to somewhere from the White House travel office. He never lived long enough to take it. Was he going to skip the country? That's an interesting thought. There's all kinds of ramifications. Anyway, the take so far, I'm told, is over 3 billion dollars. When I started on this story, it was about 8 or 9 months ago, the figure was in the range of a billion eight.

But they've just been going hog-wild lately because I think time's running out. The story's going to get out, it can't go on forever. So every night they are just pulling in more money and it's not just Switzerland, it's the Caymans, it's the Channel Islands, it's Macau, all of these tax havens, all of these banking secrecy money laundering centers around the world, they are all getting looked at because so many of them have ended up using this bugged software or systems that are easily attacked, the banking system is much more porous than anybody wants to admit. And for proof of that, about three months ago now, Citibank admitted that some Russian armed with no more than a PC managed to hack his way into Citibank's cash management system and was moving around tens of millions of dollars of cash out of corporate accounts, always keeping it in small denominations so it wouldn't trigger any internal bank alarms, moving the money to Argentina and Finland where he would have his buddies standing by to pick up the cash.

It was only because somebody tipped off the Citibank that this was going on, I think, that they got wind of it and stopped it and retrieved much of the money. But it just shows how vulnerable these banks are. In fact, what I've told is that most major banks now are apoplectic because they are under persistent, sustained attack by the hacking community now looking for these same keys to the kingdom. So, and the banking community is utterly uptight about this. I would think. How are the fifth columnists selecting which people to drain financially of their Swiss accounts and then phase two, we need to explain that next of course. Are they playing favorites of bank accounts?

I'm told no. They're going after the dirty money wherever they can find it. They have set a practical cutoff. They're not looking at anything under half a million dollars, which just tells you that... I'm safe. Why not? $499,000, I'm safe. You are smart. You're probably divided up between a bunch of different accounts.

I have sources too, you know. Okay, smart move, smart move. But don't go and try and move the money around because if you move it, that chips them off, you know. Part of the thing they do, I think, is take a little bit out of somebody's account, spook them, make them move the money to another account, and then they get track of it, lay hands on yet another hoard of money. And so these people are uptight.

They don't know where to put their money. They don't know where to put their dirty money anymore. And in fact, and I don't know if this is true or not, but several months ago there was this hoopla about, oh great terrorist threat, more security at the airports, everybody's got to get searched, turn up the settings on the metal detectors and all that stuff. There is no terrorist threat, they're looking for money, cash. There's a metal thread that basically goes through currency, which if you have enough bills wanted together, it's going to set off the metal detector. They were looking for cash. That's a little silver strip that you can see on the left side of a $10 bill or a $20.

You hold it up to the light, it's right in there. Right, right. Wow, amazing. We've got to take our third break right now, Jim, and we'll continue with the rest of this first hour here at the end of the line. What a story, amazing story. We're going to tell the people next, after taking the money out of these accounts, how these politicians are being removed from office, encouraged to retire quickly. At the end of the line, talk radio 990 KQSB. Back with Jim Norman, whose article is in this month's Media Bypass magazine.

And we should tell you to inquire about this publication, you can call 812-477-8670. That's 812-477-8670. Media Bypass magazine. Just full of fascinating articles. Jim Norman's is certainly the most powerful I've seen in a long time. The cover of this month's Media Bypass magazine, by the way, Timothy McVeigh and Interview, many articles in Media Bypass about the OKC bombing tragedy and the whole inside story on that one. This money again, you've mentioned, Jim, is brought back here and put in some kind of an escrow and it now is in excess of three billion, according to your sources. Can you tell me, without disclosing anything that would be ruinous to your efforts here, who are your sources?

What are they? How credible do they rate in your history of journalism? In your mind, obviously very high. Well, yes, and I was skeptical about them for a long time, but they've proven themselves to be quite amazingly accurate and predictive over time. Is this like a deep throat thing? You get phone calls or are you meeting people face to face or can you disclose that? There's a couple of these people I've developed a good relationship with, we talk about on the phone. There are ways of corroborating what they say.

Everything we've been able to check from multiple different directions. There are a fair amount of documentary things out there. There's quite a documented legal trail on the whole Inswant case. There are voluminous public reports, you know, the Fisk report and there's a 20-some volume some volume Senate report from the earlier phase of foster hearings, which if you go through that in detail, you find all kinds of anomalies. There are vast amounts of stuff that was whited out or redacted apparently for national security purposes. Other details that contradict the official conclusions. So that's the gold mine of information. We have only about two minutes. I'm going to hold off on phase two of the uh... fifth columnist actions phase one take away their marbles meaning those people that they like to get rid of or force out as being corrupted beyond any normalcy uh... face to his how the removal of politicians is actually uh... achieved that's a very interesting and almost amusing story which we're going to wrap the the news here has there been any other mysterious deaths jim norman That's Jim Norman, besides fosters and the last six months to a year, year and a half that you know of.