There's all kinds of funny stuff out in Arkansas. I think though that, well, there's rumors of hush money getting paid and people not hushing up and then something bad happening to them. So it's sort of a classic mafia type situation. Well, in Arkansas it's alleged now that somewhere near 50 people, I guess, at this point have died obviously untimely, at the very least, death since the Clintons have moved into Washington. And yet the Clintons seem to be a reasonable bet to be, at this point anyway, a viable candidate, both of them, for re-election. Viable as far as that goes. Yeah, well, the powers that be, I guess, pick the people I want to be president, make sure that they make it.

I don't know. All we can do is just try and get the truth out there. I'd contact the American public if they could hear the actual facts, would do it wisely. Yeah, and always isn't it true that so many people consider the American public to be essentially inept at making decisions, mature enough to weigh the facts themselves. So that's one justification, I guess, for keeping people so sedated and anesthetized through the mass media, which, as you say so eloquently in your article here the lazy gullible lapdog mainstream media swallowed this swill and regurgitated imbuing these transparent falsehoods with legitimacy that is quite a statement Jim Worman. Did I say that?

You did. I believe it, I absolutely believe it. I've been there, I've done that so I mean I know, I mean the mainstream media is a great fraud actually, I mean they don't work very hard. And they do just rely on a few convenient sources. They don't, and they act so easily gulled into believing their own lies. Well, as we've mentioned many times, you've got a national editor on a wire service, and should he or she be an agent of the CIA, NSA, or anything, or comply with dictums given to them, it's very easy to control the media. All right, that's Hour Number 1 with James Norman here. During Hour Number 2, we're going to tell you in all likelihood why Senator Bill Bradley, Representative Patricia Schroeder, Senator Paul Simon, Senator Mark Hatfield, Senator Nancy Kassebaum, Senator David Pryor, Senator James Exxon, Senator Claiborne Pell, Senator Sam Nunn, and a raft of congressmen and women have resigned as we continue here with this amazing story as being told by James R. Norman whose article in this month's Media Bypass magazine should be must-reading for all Americans of any political persuasion.

Hour number two coming up after CNN News at the top. Stay right there. Back with much more. And I'm going to watch it tonight. Hour number two, the end of the line. I'm Jeff Bruns. My guest tonight, James R. Norman, who for ten years was a senior writer with Business Week. Five years after that, with Forbes Magazine as a senior editor, is a writer of Unparalleled Accuracy and Dedication. His article in this month's Media Bypass Magazine, must reading for all Americans.

I don't care what your political persuasion is. Even if it's zero, you need to read this article if you've noticed how many senators and congressmen and uh... top-notch executives have been suddenly and apparently spontaneously retiring lately we're going to tell you exactly uh... why many of them in most all probability have done so again picking up the story we finished in our number one with the establishment of this group of uh... small group maybe five or six uh... top cia and as they agency we've gone out road if you will, calling themselves the fifth column, picked up a Cray computer, as you informed us, may have it in the back of a semi-truck and trailer with a satellite dish on it, have been downloading all sorts of international intelligence information as well as bank codes, and have been looting or bringing back the money from who knows how many numbered Swiss bank accounts that were controlled and in the name of many top American politicians, men and women.

That money has been brought back to the United States in excess of $3 billion. Your data has it and is in escrow now for future use, potentially by the CIA. Now, we've got the money back here. The accounts have been identified. Many politicians with these private accounts obviously have been shocked when they hear about phase two. Describe phase two, that being the removal of the bad guys from office by the fifth column. That's right. Step one is take away their marbles and that's been underway for a couple of years now. Step two is to actually get them out of office some way. And here, this is another huge logistical problem here.

The object is to get these people to go away on as cost effective and time effective manner as possible. So the object is to get them to quit on their own. Don't put them on trial in other words. Well, I think the big criticism against me is, well where's your proof? Just show us one of these bank documents on one of these people. And my answer is, I don't have them, which has probably saved my life. Number two is, the guys who got them don't really want these records out yet because if the records were out there and it was clear that there was a lay down case against these people, then they couldn't just retire and use these lame excuses.

They'd have to fight like cornered animals, sort of like Bob Pack would. They would all hire the best lawyers and the government would be tied in knots for years and years fighting. And desperation, grief, agony everywhere. Right, I mean the average white collar criminal prosecution by the government, it averages over a million dollars of cost to the taxpayer. And if somebody fights an irony of around 2, 3, 4 million dollars, it's almost not worth it from a cost benefit standpoint. Okay, so how do we get them out real quick? Well, what I'm told is happening here, and actually there's another fellow, a guy who publishes a little newsletter in Wisconsin.

Apparently, he's been able to corroborate some of this from his own congressional sources. What's happening is that these people get hand-delivered a plain brown paper envelope that contains actual transaction records of these bank accounts, their own bank accounts. They get to look at this. The evidence is confirmed that they're confronted with it. A day or so later, they get a call from one of these guys in the fifth column who I've been referring to as the angel of death and the avenging angel who basically reads them their alternatives. Now that you've had time to read this and think about it, here's your choices. A, you can immediately announce your retirement.

Now the purpose of that is once somebody announces they're retiring from Congress, they're not worth bribing anymore. They're not worth bribing anymore. That's right. Lame duck. They don't have a lot of power anymore. People don't have to listen to them. They're lame ducks. It's only a matter of time until they actually resign so that their governors or whoever can appoint a successor and start accumulating the seniority involved with that position.

A lot of these people, they've announced their retirements. They're going to resign probably sooner rather than later. Now the alternative is, okay, you can stay and you can fight it, but we're going to release this data. If we have to, we'll deliver it to every doorstep in your district. You will be prosecuted for tax evasion, willful tax evasion, the minimum sentence for which is 10 years in prison under federal sentencing guidelines. And guess what? When a public official gets convicted and sentenced to hard prison time, they can lose their pension too.

And for some of these people, that ain't chicken feed. For instance, the case of Pat Schroeder, a young woman who's been in Congress a long time. Her expected payout on her pension is going to aggregate over $4 million in her, you know, over the rest of her life. So there's big bucks here and considering that these people have already had their Swiss accounts raided, they are probably trying to figure out how they are going to support these rather plush lifestyles out into the future. So you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the right thing to do is to go away, play along with it, be a nice guy, go away, and maybe when the hammer finally comes down and you plead guilty to tax evasion, maybe they won't hit you with a prison term.

But there's no deal cut that says these people are not going to be prosecuted. I think they probably all will be prosecuted some way or other. Eventually, partly depends on who's the Attorney General. We're going to have a new one. So the FIFCOM does not make any promises. They say you've got plan A, resign now. Plan B, fight it and be exposed immediately with all the data of your private Swiss bank account or wherever it is, Cayman Islands. And so most everyone has opted for plan A, that's announcing a retirement or a resignation. So far they all have.

It's been a 100% success rate on that score. And they get 24 hours to make the decision or something like that. It's pretty quick. And who they go after, it's been a bipartisan thing. I think it's turned out to be about two-thirds Democrat and one-third Republican so far. But there's no favors being played here. As a practical matter, since the Democrats controlled Congress for so long, they're the ones who got all the bribes. Republicans were bribing until recently. Richard Pastures, yes.

But there's a bunch of heavy-handed Republicans leaving here. I mean, even this guy Bob Walker from Pennsylvania, right-hand man to Newt Gingrich, powerful guy. He almost was elected speaker then, I mean House Majority Leader. He's gone. Clinger, the head of the committee that's investigating travel gays, he's announced his retirement. So these are not bad ventures. They're heavy hitters who are being asked to go here. People from safe districts, I mean, they have no worry about getting re-elected. They're young people by and large, they could be there for many more years. And the interesting thing is a lot of these people who are spontaneously resigning have already begun to even print bumper stickers for re-election, like Pat Schroeder did. And what's this guy, Charlie Wilson, a representative in Texas.

Charlie Wilson, he's this land boy and character from Texas who, I always think he's had a rather reekish lifestyle there. But yeah, I'm told he was already out booking ad time. This guy Jack Fields in Texas, Houston, a young Republican, he's like in his early 40s, chairman of the Commerce Subcommittee on Transportation and Finance, or Telecommunications and Finance. Extremely powerful job. Holds a press conference, says he's gonna spend more time with his family, breaks into tears.

Just as I was just starting to answer my question. His wife breaks into tears, his mother breaks into tears. They can't control you, no, you've got to spend more time with the family. Pretty odd reaction, isn't it? Yeah, what's going on here? This is so bizarre. And the mainstream media just lapsed this stuff up and says, oh yeah, we can understand how nasty the politics are. Oh, I think it's so nice that people are going to go spend more time with their families. And so it's a new breed of, the new atmosphere in Congress. Oh, come on.

How can, I don't understand how people can publish this stuff. You know, you're painting a picture of the mainstream media that hasn't been painted perhaps enough here as being rather inept and lazy and slovenly rather than a controlled, finely tuned machine of disinformation. Now, yeah, there's some of that. I mean, there's definitely some of that and plus you also have to add a key element of fear here. I think that the people running these major media entities know that there is something so big going on here.

They are scared to death of this. They are petrified. Well, they have Swiss bank accounts too probably. Well, that's true. I mean, hell, Salinas was on the board of directors at Dow Jones and publishes a Wall Street Journal. Here's a... Yeah, we should talk about the foreign angle on this. Let's get into that in just a few minutes. What about the reaction to these spontaneous resignations and so forth from the insiders that are not being tainted so far?

What do you hear? Well, what I hear is that they're all scared to death about this. They're all worried that their accounts are going to hit. It's just like it's a matter of time, you know. that is predicting more. Yes, dozens, maybe scores, and it's going to stretch out over a period of years. It amounts to a rolling coup d'etat of our government. Think about it. In fact, what you have here, the dichotomy is not so much between Democrats and Republicans, it's between the haves and the have-nots in Congress.

It's between the people with seniority and the ranking committee positions who have been taking all this payola for all these years and letting the crumbs fall to the freshmen. Now you have this crop of freshmen who have come in here and they see at last there is a chance to break this cycle of corruption. I think they are in a mood to take no prisoners. Some of these guys are just chomping at the bit at the idea of cleaning away this whole raft of corrupt legislators in the government. Not just in the Congress, but in the administrative branches of the government. There's unprecedented numbers of departures from the Justice Department. I've told this is going on in the Treasury. Customs, I think there's a concerted clean up effort going on in the government because I think finally some of the enforcement functions, the inspectors general, the internal audit functions within the government, you're finally being emboldened to go after this stuff because the corruption has just gotten so endemic.

And I think the fifth column has emboldened these people that yes, something can be done about it. Wow, what super patriots these five or six people must be, I guess, although there may be the doubters and critics on the sideline that will say, well, they're using blackmail and extortion and conspiracy to do it. That's not right either. Well, yeah, I've had some heated arguments with these guys. How can you dare do it this way? You have to go public with it. You have to play by the rules.

And they say, well, I won't tell you what to say. Because, look, they think about it in a completely different way. They look at it from an intelligence community standpoint which is let's get the job done and worry about the roles later. And the appearances, we don't care about the appearances. We want to get these crooks out of there. And they don't care about the media. They don't talk to the media. One of my guys, he's got a stack of 50 messages from all of the big deal media. He won't even return them.

He thinks they're all horrors. So he talks to me I think just because he takes pity on me and because I was a persistent guy. I think he's got a stack of 50 messages from all of the big deal media. He won't even return them. He thinks they're all horrors. So he talks to me I think just because he takes pity on me and because I was a persistent guy. I think he's got a stack of 50 messages from all of the big deal media. He won't even return them.

He thinks they're all horrors. So he talks to me I think just because he takes pity on me, because I was a persistent son of a gun and went down there and talked to him myself and we developed some rapport and joked around together. And, you know, it's, I don't know. Plus, I think I've become sort of the one convenient mouthpiece and I think they do want to get this story out somewhere. Well, certainly they trust and respect you uh... jim norman and uh... as you wait for the first break here in our number two right now and when we continue our let's talk about the attorney general janet reno and how i was she may or may not figure into any and all of this as we continue here at the end of the line talk radio nine ninety k q s b We're back with Jim Norman talking about the amazing things that have been going on in this country for the last year or so by way of retirements, spontaneous retirements of course and resignations of top level senators and congressmen.

Janet Reno, our Attorney General, would seem to have a lot of, according to many people, blood on her hands already from Waco and skeletons in her closet. There are reports of her bisexual behavior and so forth and so on. That notwithstanding, what does Janet Reno have to do with any of this at all or does she have anything to do with it? And furthermore, who is really controlling Janet Reno? Well, that's really the question. I think that Janet Reno, she's really kind of a figurehead there. I think she got the job, and she was picked specifically because she had a lot of, she's very human, she has a lot of weaknesses, and she has a lot of faults that people can hold over her head and manipulate her and control her.

And I think that if you control the Justice Department, you can get away with all kinds of stuff. Is it Bill Clinton that's controlling her? I don't think so. I think it's, there are other entities here. Look at this huge drug business that is underlying all this stuff. Look at the huge arms business that underlies all this stuff, all of which is basically based on illicit trade. I think that what is in the process here of this whole change of government, I think it's going to involve the executive office, it's going to involve the attorney general here before the election, I think.

The noose is tightening here. And you can see that with Hillary Clinton. Well, she's going before the grand jury now. Four hours of machine gun questioning by Kenneth Starr. Never happened before. Again, this is not travelgate in whitewater. There's a reason they're going after her. And it is this whole espionage, potentially treasonous activity. And the way the government works on this stuff, the object is just to find some felony that they could charge her with and prosecute her and throw the book at her.

Treason and espionage might be too hard to prove, but they're going to find something for sure. They want her out of there. It's going to happen. It's just a matter of time, I think. There's considerable speculation. The reason it hasn't happened sooner is there's still just some diggering over the actual terms of surrender here. Would there be pardons? Would these people leave the country?

This is a mind-boggling situation. It has never happened in this country. And what we've said in these stories, and it's sadly coming true, this is the biggest political upheaval this country has faced since the Civil War. Make no mistake about it. Yes, a rolling coup d'etat, as you said. And rolling in terms of the semi-truck and trailer that's rolling around the country, maybe with what, tiggly wiggly markets on the outside? Who knows?

Yeah, I don't know. The thing about a refrigerated truck is that they don't have to be inspected, they don't have to open them up on the road, you know, they can bypass the way scales, and who knows what, so you can't inspect every one of those things. Amazing. Let's, this is just incredible, let's shift gears just a little bit and look beyond our borders.

You mentioned the former president of Mexico, Salinas. Just a little bit of dirty money around that guy. Let's talk about him. Only a half a billion or so. Massive amounts of money. Massive. Drug money, other kind of paywall, all kinds of stuff they've been ripping off from the Mexican economy. Ended up mostly in Switzerland in Citibank accounts apparently. Citibank?

The bank that the vice chairman just quit there suddenly and didn't their chief financial officer just leave there all of a sudden? Moved it out the door? I hear John Reed the chairman, looking for another job, you know. Look, the thing you have to keep in mind here, you could not launder the amount of money we're talking about here without the knowing and willing participation of major banks and brokerage houses. I think in many cases it has involved the corruption of senior officers in these institutions. Hasn't a lot of Citibank stock been dumped lately?

Yeah, a bunch of insiders are selling stuff like Managed in the last quarter. Partly they are going to argue because the stock was so high, but to me it's indicative that there's a bunch of these people that are going to bail out if they're leaving the bank and selling their stock. Partly they could argue because of the separation agreements or something. There's more turmoil going on there. Let's look at some other countries here. Canada, Brian Mulroney, former Prime Minister there, under investigation by the Mounties for Swiss bank accounts. Apparently he's been taking kickbacks on Airbus, Aircraft orders for Air Canada and that's just the tip of the iceberg I'm told.

How much? Well, they're I think talking in the order of double digit millions. Well, the Cali Cartel, let's look at them for a minute. In Colombia? Yeah. My information is that they've had their computers raided too, fairly recently, within the last couple of months or so. Now let's say you could get into the Cali computers and find out who all they've been paying off. Ooh, there could be a lot of people getting real nervous about that. One person they did find out they were paying off apparently was our star witness in the Noriega drug case. Which is going to get Noriega a whole new trial.

It will immediately, sure. Yeah, they paid him a million two or a million five, something like that. We're looking at a potential here of Manuel Nureyega going back to, if he lives, to go back to trials. This thing could get real amazing. He's already got plans to move to Nevada, I'm told. Or is it New Mexico or Arizona? He's going to get off. He's going to be free. Let's look at Korea.

Both of their past presidents are in prison right now. Together they've been implicated in slush funds aggregating over a billion dollars. Where? Well, Switzerland's some of it. A lot of it is in England, apparently. The English, apparently, are masters at money laundering. And probably the Bank of England itself has participated. You've got Prime Minister of Japan just resigned. Mr. Murayama. Nobody expected that. Actually, we forecasted in the story. We ended up having to rewrite that part right at the last minute when he resigned.

The word we got is that the opposition party probably got one of these brown paper envelopes with funny transactions, which I think forced his resignation. Is anybody in big government in this country, or any other government for that matter, not corrupted at this point in time? Or do you have to become corrupted to get that high? I think it is endemic corruption. I think that anybody who goes to Washington, I don't care how pure hearted they are, within a matter of hours, they have so much money thrown at them. You'd have to be a saint to resist it. I mean it's just, and you can't give enough money legally under the current campaign laws to really get these guys attention and so you do it with all kinds of other offshore kind of stuff.

Elaborately structured transactions, that's why there's so many lawyers and lobbyists there. It's a brain teaser to figure out how do we put money in these people's pockets without making it visible. And so the short answer is I think the whole system is fundamentally corrupted. And I think corruption is always going to go on. But hopefully what may happen out of this, in fact what I think the fifth column guys would like to see is just some kind of a permanent function put in place that would permanently surveil the financial dealings of people who we entrust with high office, make their financial transactions transparent.

Yeah, they may get corrupted still, but it's going to be the kind of money you can roll up and put in a mason jar rather than what you need a multi-million dollar Swiss bank account for. Literally put them in a fiscal, financial, moral fishbowl and make the glass clean so you can see what's going on. Yeah, I think we have a right to demand that. If these people want to set themselves up to govern us, then I think it's a fair and quick pro quo. The problem we have right now is the enforcement system within the government cannot touch Congress. It's like a hands-off.

Ever since the EBSCAM case, which actually, this is like a state operations set up back in the 1980s, aimed mainly at defense contractors and other people like that, they netted a couple of congressmen. In fact, Harrison Williams, Senator from New Jersey, Roy Dyson, I think, I caught him at the Congressman from New York. There was such a furor raised. How dare you? How dare you, Justice Department and FBI, go after Congress? This is separation of powers. This is off limits. Lay hands off or strip your budgets naked.

And so nobody, the enforcement mechanism within the government is scared to death of Congress. They won't go after them. So you just don't see many serious prosecutions of people in Congress for financial wrongdoing. I mean you had this guy in LA, I forget his name, he got nailed here, but that was for something that he did before he went to Congress I think. Right, it has been said many times Jim Norman, you've heard this probably for years and years, the people in Washington really don't govern us anyhow. There's a hierarchy of power, multinational corporations and so on that really sets the tone and pulls the strings. How does it look from your position of 10 years with Businessweek as a senior writer, 5 years at Forbes, senior editor, you know money as well as anyone would ever want to know money on a national and international basis.

Who is calling the shots ultimately here? Well, I don't know. I thought I knew. I thought I understood perfectly how the world works. And then I stumbled onto this story and I realized nothing is what it seems to be. I mean all of this pretense, all of this, the facade of order and dignity and reason and rule of law. It's money, it's money that is calling the shots here. And it's greed that is driving these people.